tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1847902007209931042.post5910761286113921123..comments2024-01-05T05:46:30.140-08:00Comments on Angie's Desk: Drawing the LineAngiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1847902007209931042.post-2519479865041071762008-11-10T18:32:00.000-08:002008-11-10T18:32:00.000-08:00Dorothy -- thanks. :)AngieDorothy -- thanks. :)<BR/><BR/>AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1847902007209931042.post-89324048259373951172008-11-10T13:24:00.000-08:002008-11-10T13:24:00.000-08:00Great work.Great work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1847902007209931042.post-6886600322001668172007-12-04T19:57:00.000-08:002007-12-04T19:57:00.000-08:00Point well taken, Angie. You are absolutely right ...Point well taken, Angie. You are absolutely right on the difference between academic writing and fiction. I shouldn't have mixed the two. But I do think that there is definitely less of a tolerance for plagiarism now that we are in the internet age where plagiarism softwares abound and people are just looking to find out who might have plagiarized from who, you know what I mean? I'm just thinking about the fact that some of the recent plagiarism cases were actually caught by fans who read and noticed similar passages in books. Anyway, really interesting post as usual!Ello - Ellen Ohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311917335471167591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1847902007209931042.post-74059271019758053482007-12-03T23:59:00.000-08:002007-12-03T23:59:00.000-08:00Charles -- I have no doubt that it's unethical, bu...Charles -- I have no doubt that it's unethical, but I honestly thought that skated the line just this side of legally being plagiarism. Paraphrasing is "legal" and that seems to be what this is, in a way.<BR/><BR/>Bernita -- I like that Atwood quote too. :) Apparently this one writer thought the whole book was pretty shiny. [wry smile]<BR/><BR/>Ello -- I have a hard time imagining, though, that the same rule holds or could hold for fiction. And even in academia, three words? Which three words? What kind of words? If someone else said, "Therefore it is" does that mean I can never say it without a footnote? There has to be some sort of leeway regarding which words and what's being said, rather than <I>just</I> counting numbers. [ponder]<BR/><BR/>Also, in academia, the focus is on ideas; having been the first person to think of a particular idea is a big deal and needs to be protected. In fiction, ideas are a dime a dozen and it's what you do with the idea that's important. Hamilton and Brite and Yarbro don't cite Stoker (who actually would've had to cite Polidori, but anyway) and that's okay; they'd only have to if they quoted him, whereas if someone came up with a new idea in academia, later scholars talking about it would have to cite the first author even if they didn't quote him or her.<BR/><BR/>Maybe I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be, but it seems to me that there's a fundamental difference here between fiction and non-fiction. [more pondering]<BR/><BR/>Travis -- definitely. [nod] Whether the second author has done anything legally wrong or not, reader attention is probably what'll have the most impact at this point.<BR/><BR/>Thanks, all.<BR/><BR/>AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1847902007209931042.post-75633843149721255772007-12-03T13:32:00.000-08:002007-12-03T13:32:00.000-08:00What is ans isn't plagiarims aside I think the ult...What is ans isn't plagiarims aside I think the ultimate decision rests with readers. If they think you copied someone else and didn't bring a fresh voice, feel, or edge to pices it is unlikely they will read you again.<BR/><BR/>I guess you can argue that eh person that did it first can suffer if no one discovers them until after the second but I still think he or she who does it best will be the one to prevail.Travis Erwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09420879160702098979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1847902007209931042.post-5677337126565126012007-12-03T08:11:00.000-08:002007-12-03T08:11:00.000-08:00Angie, that second paragraph would definitely cons...Angie, that second paragraph would definitely constitute plagiarism. The rule now is even if you paraphrase you must cite the original source material - and in academia, where plagiarism is a huge concern, the rule is 3 or more consecutive words used from the original text without citation is plagiarism. <BR/><BR/>The Kaavya Viswanathan case is a perfect example of exactly what you are talking about, and she had all her books yanked by the publisher and there was talk of the other publishers suing her for plagiarism but I don't think anything came of it because the books were yanked so quickly.Ello - Ellen Ohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18311917335471167591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1847902007209931042.post-55678105935656399342007-12-03T07:50:00.000-08:002007-12-03T07:50:00.000-08:00I also think your second example is clear plagiari...I also think your second example is clear plagiarism.<BR/><BR/>I like what Margaret Atwood said ( not about plagiarism about about writing in general) that writers are like jackdaws...we only steal the shiny bits.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1847902007209931042.post-5248389509550002412007-12-03T07:40:00.000-08:002007-12-03T07:40:00.000-08:00I actually think the single paragraph example you ...I actually think the single paragraph example you gave would illustrate plagiarism, although if that is all there was then there's no use doing anything about it. One might think such a short piece to be inadvertent, or maybe a deliberately similar start that spins off in a different direction. But if a whole book were written like that then, to me, it is definetely plagiarism and deserves to be identified as such. <BR/><BR/>You're right, of course, that all writers borrow, sometimes consciously and sometimes unconsciously, but ethical writers use those borrowings as jumping off places to take a story in a new direction, or at least with wholly new flesh over the skeleton.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.com